157th Infantry Regiment Crest, 45th Infantry Division, Second Worldwar

William Shaw
Part Two

157th Infantry Regiment Crest, 45th Infantry Division, Second Worldwar
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Part Two of the Interview with Bill and Lillian Shaw

 

By Bill Crane
Edited by Eric Rieth

CAMP KILMER, AND THE QUEEN MARY TO SCOTLAND

So then, from there we got orders and I couldn't even call home and let her know. We went to Camp Kilmer. Where was that? That is up in North Jersey, near Elizabeth. Un huh. And I stayed there a day and a half, and then we got the train, and went to New York. And we, oh geez it's late at night, and we got on the Queen Mary. Oh - yeah, Queen Mary? - the size of it! Oh. Beautiful. We slept on bunks, you know eh, boy that was quite a time. Huh. Here's a good question. Where did you get your ring? Do you remember? Lyons. Lyons, that was the jewelry store down - where's that Kensington Avenue or something? - Front and Dauphin. Front Street. On Front Street? Front and Dauphin. Yeah, I remember that jewelers. Elizabeth Traynes. Yeah. The lady - are they still around? - the lady was a friend of his mothers. It was one of those well noted ah jewelers. Yeah. So you only, you're only a couple of weeks in this other place you were talking about? Aberdeen. Yeah. Some place in Maryland, then you went up to North Jersey? Then to the - and then I was only there a day, like a day and a half. Then you went on the Queen Mary. I can remember while I was up there.

 

The Queen Mary's record breaking voyage carried several pasengers that later were assigned to the 45th

THE QUEEN MARY TRIP OVER

How long did it take the Queen Mary to come over? Eh, we made it in five days. Five days? Yeah. Did you get sick? No. I had - oh he said that's just like oh, just as nice. I had got talking to one of the crew members that is, their assigned to it and eh, he was telling me, he said eh, they're not afraid of subs or anything, because they can outrun a torpedo. Un huh. But it's the mines and airplanes they have to watch. But they have their zig-zag course, all the way through. They go so much this way. They, they can't run at - yeah, yeah - intercept you. They, they can make thirty two knots - that's pretty good - and ah that's fast for a boat. Sure is! And that's why we didn't have a, a convoy. We went by ourselves. They gen, all boats usually have a convoy. I guess so. Yeah, I saw one of the fellows there - so what did you do all during the day? Well, that's it. You'd shoot craps, play cards. Un huh. Then they would orient you in different things. You had like classes - did you have - you know. Well. So they kept you busy. But you had an awful lot of leisure time. Free time, yeah. Oh you did, because you weren't going to have any, right?

LANDING NEAR OMAHA BEACH AND LA HAVRE FRANCE

Oh I, ah, the boat landed in Glasgow, Scotland. Oh. Geez. And from there, we went over the English Channel, and I landed in La Havre- in France? And from La Havre - well that, ok because that was already after D Day - yeah - which was in June, and you're, you, and what, when was this taking place? October. This was October 12th. October 12th, Columbus Day huh? Yeah. And that's when you went in La Havre, France? I was in the La Havre, France then. Well, didn't you - and we picked up - Omaha Beachhead? - that's when they slaughtered a lot of them. And that's the war - well, not that - yeah. That was June - but that's June. You were shipping out. But that was after I was - you were in training still then, on D Day. Yeah, I was in training. Un huh. Well he come in the Omaha beachhead he saw - well that's we, after I picked up the outfit, that's where I had went in. And you could still smell the, from the dead bodies. Dead bodies - yeah? Really? Oh, yeah, it was an awful smell - yeah - because we had went in the, went in on this here, I was on a French ship, went over the Channel, and from there, we had to come down into these here landing barges.

BOARDING THE LANDING CRAFT FROM ROPE LADDER

Now it, it was a storm, it was awful rough, so they were trying, see they have a, a ramp comes out the side of the ship and goes on to the landing barge. But it was so rough, it broke the ramp, so they said well you can't board that way. So this captain, he looks around - get the skinniest ones - and he picked me out - yeah - he says we'll go down the rope ladder. We'll try it that way. So oh geez, ha, he figured that, that I - lightest one - was the lightest - and if you didn't make it, ha, ha. No body, yeah, betcha. So I go down the rope ladder. I had my gear and all, your pack and all, right - and rifle - phew, so I'm going down the rope ladder, and I looked, and the boat was there, and the first thing, I hear this guy holler up, don't leave go! And I looked again, and the boat's about eighteen feet below me! See the bar, ah the landing barge - yeah. He says now look, the next time we come up, you just lay - from the waves? - you leave go and fall backwards. Ha, ha. Sure!! So eh, I waited for it to come up, and I left go and then they caught me. Oh yeah? See, as I would leave go, then they caught me. Oh geez - trust - I was so glad that that happened, for we had a little Jewish boy with us, so they picked him to come down second. Oh, they couldn't, it, you talk about a, a stubborn mule, they couldn't move him! He was on the rope, he wouldn't move? He wouldn't let go, I guess, ha, ha? No, no, he wouldn't go down. He wouldn't even get over the side, ho, ho, because he saw what it was, what you had to do going down that rope.

But we finally got on, and then that's where we came in, and oh, did that stink there. And then when we hit that hill there, it, at Omaha, that was a real steep hill, and they had run a line down, like a cable, and that's what you had to hold on to going up. You more or less pulled yourself up that. Then that's where I picked up the 45th Division. Were there a lot of guys looking for that division too? No, well, there was so many assigned to that, and so many assigned to other divisions. Un huh. Now, they may have been assigned to the 45th, but they wouldn't have been assigned to the same platoon. Well, when he was in the hospital, you know, the 45th was wiped out. No they wasn't wiped out now. Come on. They were almost. They were captured. Cap, well, yeah. That's why they gave you that, any job you wanted.

 

HOOKING UP WITH THE 45TH DIVISION

Do you know what your orders were for? They don't tell you, I guess they don't tell you in those days - no, no. Just overseas - just overseas. And this here one barracks where I was, eh, see I was over 35 then, this one fellow was 45 - just going over? There was another fellow there, he was, oh I guess 38, 39, one leg was shorter than the other. Because we would all shoot crap together. Un huh. All, the fellow that had the short leg, he was on the line the first, the very first day, and he was killed. Unh. And he was, I think, 39. Unh. And this other fellow was 45. I don't know whatever happened, see we had got splitten up, we were all assigned to different outfits. Un huh. And I was assigned to the - see when we were going over in the boat, they said well we're like old, but we would be put in for MPs, see we were supposed to do police work. Well as soon as I got there, they put me right into the infantry. Un. I was with the 45th division- and they had just came from Africa and Italy - yeah - and I had to pick them up. So I had, where did I pick them up at? Oh, in France. And that's where - where did - where did the boat land? Where did the Queen Mary first stop? England?

EXPECTING TO BE AN MP

And eh - you worried about where you were going? No, I wasn't worried then, ha ha, because I didn't know where I was going. I thought I was going into the, more or less, MPs. Un huh. I thought that's, that's what we'd be. Un huh. We were even making bars - behind the lines, you mean, MPs behind the lines? Yeah. Because that, you don't have MPs up, up on the lines. Well, it would be MP work - un huh - that's military police - directing the traffic, things like that. But, ah, we all figured that, till we got there. Then we were assigned to different outfits.

ENDING UP WITH A BROWNING AUTOMATIC RIFLE (BAR)

So where, and where did you, and you, as soon as you joined them, what did you do? Well, I was, more or less presented with the BAR. Is that right? And ah - that's very heavy, it isn't light - no, it isn't that it's heaviness. The BAR man is suicide. Yeah. Is that right? They, well - yeah - because they want to get gun. Nobody will take the BAR. You know, get it out of commission - because as soon as eh, you open up your BAR, you're flashing - right, and everybody - and they throw everything - they think you're a target - yeah - it's a target - they throw everything in at you. They figure you are a rookie coming in, right? No, they'll - no, no - no body wants it - no and now then - and the - no, but - and get killed. Yeah, no body wants it. They assigned it to you because you were the new guy coming in. Oh, yeah, that's how they do it. He, he, every new guy come in, he would give it to them, they'd get killed, he had to take it back again. That was it, like ah soon, like you'd get replacements, you'd have, say twelve in - new fellas come in, now you take the BAR - in your squad. Un huh. Yeah. Or a guy gets hit - yeah, so you move back - or maybe the next day you'll be at a place and get a replacement. Un huh.

TAKING THE POINT

Well, soon as a replacement comes in, I'd go over and present him with the BAR. Ha, ha. I think I did that nine times! Ha, ha. And what, what was your rank? A guy would have it, maybe two hours and he'd get hit - oh, see that flash - and the captain would say, all right Shaw, grab it! Huh. And eh, God damn, I used to swear about it. He says, well look, he says, how about taking the point then? Huh, that's just as bad! Oh, I said, give me the BAR! Ha, ha. They had me on the point once, and I wouldn't take it no more. Ha, ha. Because I had to go out, oh I'd say, 500 yards ahead of the outfit - un huh - then I'd lay there, and there was seven tanks coming around, German tanks. And I'm laying there and now what the hell as I supposed to do? Ha, ha. Un huh. They didn't tell me what I was supposed to do. They just told you to - lay there - yeah. Hang there. So I laid there, and I, and they were right back - this was still in France? This was in France. This was right before we went into Germany. Un huh. And eh, then the tanks, they took off on the road, and as they did, then I come back.

So then, we took another course, so I said the hell with that, I don't want that point no more, and I took the BAR back again. But, see what it was with the BAR, the BAR weighed eh 38, 39 pounds - really, that heavy!? - so heavy, heavy! The rifle itself - and then when you have the - but it's your bandolier - yeah, with all that ammo - see, that's a harness you had to wear. Well, that weighed eh - what did that weigh, 60, 65 pound I think, just the, the bandolier (The BAR and Cartridge belt together weigh about 39 Lbs; See Combatload page). And then I had, I would carry about six or eight hand grenades, and then I'd carry two ribbons - boy if somebody would have hit you, they would have blown the place up, right?! - yeah! Well, I wanted to be well, well prepared. Ha, ha. You mean when you were on the point? This was all the time - on the, on the, all the time I had this. Well, see with the BAR, I figured if anything went wrong with the BAR - un huh - I could use one of my bandoliers for an M-1. Un.

German 81-mm mortar

88 ROUND KNOCKS HIM OVER AGAINST A TREE

And that, then we hit this here one place we were going in, it was the captain, he was only a second lieuy then, and this here other kid, he was only about 19. We were standing there talking. We had just moved into this, this was more or less like a wooded area, and we're standing there talking, and this 88, an 88 you can't hear coming - I mean a mortar - don't whistle. A mortar you can't hear coming in, but an 88, you can hear. It'll whistle. Un huh. And by the, the tone of it, the whistle, you can tell whether it's going to be close, or, in, if it's close, then you hit the ground. Well, this mortar come in, and you couldn't hear it. Well, it dropped more or less like in the middle of us. Well the concussion, and me being light, it knocked me down. I went flat, and I fell up against a tree and it hit this tree, and that tree was about that thick, and it just cut that tree. They took the both of them back, so they come up to me, they ran over to me first, because I was out flat - ah yeah they - and the tree, when the tree fell, it came this way - it could have went right through him - and I could, I could see the branches and all coming down over me. So, I crawled out of there, and now, now I'm walking all around and I was all right. I didn't, outside my hand, I saw the blood there - un huh - well I didn't bother with that. And then eh, they took them, they called the medics and they got them back.

 

HEADED FOR GERMANY AND FINALLY GETTING SHOWER

Then eh we went up to, we had went into Germany then, we were going into Germany. We went up this here hill, oh geez, I think we pushed, well that was the time we pushed 55 mile in three days. Yeah? Who was the commander of your outfit? Ah, you mean the general? Yeah - Patton - no, no, no. Ah, hum, cripe, I, I don't remember his name now. And this would, this would have been what, November, or December? This would've been November. In November, so the weather already's cold? Oh, it was cold, snow. And this was Northern France, right? We had, we didn't even have an overcoat. No. All I had was my field jacket - no overcoats, no overcoats. The field jacket - no long underwear, or anything? - I had - yeah - my long underwear. He had two sets on - I actually had two sets on, ha, ha. I put two sets of long underwear on. And when he took his bath, you know you take your bath outside with just a, a curtain around it. Well that was, like that, that was like a rest area. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Eh, he hadn't had a bath for a couple of months. Well I guess it was - you didn't get it, did you, out there in the cold? He did get a bath out there. Yeah. It felt so good! And that's when he found out he had trench feet. See, what it is, they had, it's mobile, a shower unit. Un huh. Un huh. Just this canvas. And they just had this canvas around it, and oh, geez, it's cold! Sure! And eh, this is - was it warm water, anyhow? - well, you had hot water, yeah. Un huh. But then when a guy would walk out from the curtain, you know, that cold air - leave all the cold air in? Yeah. Oh, ha, ha. Right.

GOING THROUGH THE MAGINOT LINE, BARBED WIRE TEARS PANTS

So then, what you do, see, you turn your underwear in - and then - the dirty underwear in, then you'd get clean - you get replacements for it. Un huh. I said look I'm turning two in, I want two back, because I didn't even have an overcoat. Is that when you, your pants was tore, too? No, that was when we're going through the Maginot Line - he, eh, tore his pants. We had to go through the, you know the Maginot Line. There was all the barbed wire and - un huh - so we got under and then after we got in, that's when they started shelling us, and they hollered for us to pull back, out under. Un huh. Well, as I'm coming out - who was hollering for that? - oh, your - your commanders? - your first lieutenant, see - un huh - or your captain. It's usually a, a first lieutenant - un huh - they didn't make captains long. They didn't hold it that long. Un huh. So as I's coming out my leg got caught in the barbed wire, and the shells was falling pretty close. Well, I yanked. Well I ripped you know the boot - un huh. I ripped the pants leg all the way down. I ripped that boot all the way down. I, I didn't know whether I could do it, ha. Hum. But it happened. Geez, and eh, that exposed you to more cold then, right? Oh yeah. My pants leg was open, all the way up. Yeah. Wow.

MODER RIVER, CROSSING BRIDGE AND BEING FIRED ON

Then we pulled into this here, we pulled into this here, what was a mountain. We had to go up the mountain and down on the other side. I'm glad I sent money that night. And then, as I, I think that was the Elbe River ( the 45th Infantry Division came through the Vosge Mountains and crossed the Moder river), as we came down the mountain, you came down this way, and that's where you looked. Un huh. And then eh, there was a bridge there, and it was partly blown, you know what I mean - yeah - so they said, we'll have to go over this. So they said, we will go one at a time. So I think I was the third one going over. Oh geez, I had the BAR. I had the arms. I even threw a handkerchief away, because it was too heavy to carry! Ha, ha. I didn't have any socks - hum - so going over, you had to run - across? - zigzag. They thought he was, thought he was going too slow - and that there, they had the snipers shooting at you as you're running across. That's why we had to go one at a time. You had to leave one get oh maybe twenty yards in front of you - un huh - then they'd send the next one over. Now, I got over, as I was going over, oh I could see these here, they're hitting right at my feet. They must have been poor shots. Un huh. And all around you, oh they're running.

DROPPING FROM EXHAUSTION; DIGGING 7 FOXHOLES

Well I, I just made it over the bridge when - well, they hollered and said come on, come on - and I, I hollered, I said, the hell with it! I can't go no more! So I dropped right there. I fell on the ground. They thought he was hit. On the bridge? No, after I had just gotten over the bridge. Oh, un huh. And eh, this here one sergeant, he come running over. He says, where are you hit? I says I'm not hit. I'm all right. I can't run no more, all that weight! So he's running on up to where we were dug in. See they had like a, more or less like a trench. Un huh. I says as soon as I get my breath, I'll come up. So I, I got up there and then the, it was right after that in the afternoon, there was a, a stone house. Oh geez, boy we're all pooped, and we thought we were going to get a rest. And we're all sitting around. See, every place that you stop, you start digging your foxhole. Is that right? Oh, geez, I think I dug seven ha, foxholes in one day, and didn't sleep in any of them. Ha, ha.

TAKING THE STONE HOUSE

Oh eh, captain hollered up, come on, six men. Well, I was one of them. I had to go down and take that house. You are always in the wrong place at the wrong time. Yeah. Ha. Well, that's the way - little guy like you, I would have been lost all the time. You know, he said one - you don't get lost there - one, one take the upstairs, and one take the downstairs. You don't know whether them steps is booby trapped or not. Oh. Hum. He said I'll take the upstairs. So we went - and a shell come in - went down the road - oh God - and he says our object, we got to take that house. So we go over, there was only six of us. Did you know if any enemy were there? No. We didn't know whether they were there or not. As we, you hit the front door, see you spread around the house. Well the first sergeant, he was with us. Well he hit the front door with his rifle, standing on the side, and that was booby trapped. See, soon as you hit that, soon as you open that then the grenade goes off. Did it hit him? No, no - you stood on the side - because you stand along the side of the house - oh - when you open it. So we go in, so all right Shaw, take the upstairs. And - why, why did they want to take the house? They want some place to stay. Somebody might be in there. Well, that was an outpost. That was an outpost for their artillery - oh - and had been. Oh.

PICKING THE BACK OF HOUSE TO SECURE, MISSING DIRECT HIT SHELL IN FRONT

And eh, geez, every step I was, I thought oh geez, this room must be the trap. Un huh. Hum. I would skip a step. Ha. So I finally, I got upstairs, then when I got upstairs, they had, oh, they must've had seven rooms there, and I didn't know which one to, to look in first. Un huh. And then I finally made my rounds, and I'm standing there, looking out the window, and they had a 170 zeroing in on us. Really? And I'm standing up there, watching this thing, they throw us the shell, and I was watching each one getting closer to the house. Oh yeah? So, he hollers up, come on, get down here! So, I come down. He says, look, he says, ah, they're zeroing on in. So this here other fellow, he's says ah look, one of you's take the front, the other take the back - take the back. So he said to the guy, I forget his name now, I says eh, what do you want? I says take whatever you want. He says, oh, he says I'm close, I'll take the front. So I go down the hall to take the back, and I heard this shell coming in. Boy, it was whistling, and I knew it was going to be close. But geez, the first thing, it was close. It hit right outside there. And the first thing you know, this guy's calling me - hey, help me, oh, I need air, oh God. And I looked down the hall and there he's standing like this - ah that's an awful thing, oh - and all you could see was blood - oh God - he had blood from head to foot.

TENDING TO FALLEN COMRADE

So I come running up the hall to him, got him, set him down. Well right away he wanted a drink of water - drink, a drink, you're not supposed to give him a drink - and eh, he wanted his pills. Pills? Oh yeah, you do carry pills. It's like Penicillin. So you, we had eh, soon as you got hit, you were to take these two pills. Yeah. And what was that going to do? Sulfa. Like sulfa, yeah, and it's something. It was, wait a minute, what the heck was it? Morphine or something? Huh? It was to stop - sulfa? - eh, it was to stop any poisons - poisons - from setting in, because they said if you get hit, even if you pack it with bl, eh, with mud, to stop the bleeding, that's all they wanted was to stop the bleeding. Un huh. They could take care of anything else that set in. Un huh. So, eh this medic was with us, and he was eh, um, what the heck would you call him? A Formalta. Oh he was out, from out in California, like a, a Mexican. Yeah. Yeah, he, he was pretty good. So he looked at him, and he's hollering for me to get him a drink out of my canteen. Well, I was going to give it to him, but if you're hit in the stomach, you can't take water. Un huh. And, he was hit here. But he had one on his neck too. Bill said you could linger. So eh, I says eh, I forget his name too - I said what do you want me to do? Give him a drink? He says, well, he shook his head. He's pretty well gone. You might as well. So I gave him a drink. I held my fingers this way, and poured it, and I wanted to save enough in case I got hit. So, he didn't take his pills, he just took the water, and he's laying there, and this here medic took his two fingers and put them on his neck, and pulled this piece of shrapnel out, and that's, oh the blood was squiring all over! So they said to us to get down and in the cellar.

SAFETY OF STONE HOUSE CELLAR;DADDY REPAIRS COMMUNICATION WIRE

Well, we went down the cellar, and you should have saw that cellar. They had concrete walls. I bet they were 18 inches thick! Un huh. And while we were down there, they were hitting the house, and eh, nothing was hap - wasn't even coming down. Oh them walls was thick! Well, we were, they had us there for oh I'd, I'd say for six hours, and we couldn't even get this guy that was hit out! Un huh. So, that night, around 10 o'clock, a couple of our tanks come up, and that's how we got him out. You mean he didn't die yet? No, was still alive. Hum. He was delirious. Un huh. So we got him out, and then eh, we stayed there, and there was a couple of rangers had come up from an outfit and they was in there with us. And, these two tanks - as this tank comes in, he run over one of our communications wires - un huh - and broke it. Oh. And it is pitch black out. So they says, do you think you can find it? I said I don't know. So I had to get a hold of that wire and I had to crawl all along till I found where the break was - yeah - then I spliced it together. Un huh. But, ah, everything's coming in while you're out there, and that's, ha, ha, oh cripe - a lot of shells coming in? - I cursed them tanks. Hum. I come back, then I was on the phone for the rest of the night there.

THE 45TH ADVANCES; BULGE BEGINS

When you joined the 45th, ah, did you go right into combat? Un huh. I mean, they were already fighting when you joined them? Yeah. That was blood, yeah, that's blood and sand. Wasn't there a long distance to go before you hit the front? That's the fighting - when you got there? What was it? No, not from where I, that's why they took us to the Omaha - the 45th was the fighting the bloody - and that's where we had picked them up and that's when we started fighting. Right, right as - see, we had been into Germany and then they pushed us back out again. Un huh. That was the bulge. Yeah. Un huh. And eh, this one place we were at - geez, I forget the name of it, because it was town, you would just get in there - un huh - and that would be the, you'd only be there for maybe an hour, and you'd be taking another town. He wrote me a letter one time - Is that right? - and he said we were in and he mentioned its name, he said you know where you used to live? Oh that was Chester. They had that whole thing down. And oh, you'd be moving back.

NATURE CALLS AS SHELLS LAND

That's why I said, were you advancing or retreating? Most of the time we were advancing. Un huh. Till this last spot, and then we were more or less stationary. Un huh. Ah - do you know the way to the building was? - No, we were in like the woods there. What town was it? Well, was - it was just a farmhouse? - because when we got there, we dug our foxhole - un huh - and by the time we left, our foxhole was six foot deep. Un huh. And when eh, in the morning, this one morning, I had to take a crap, so I climb out of the foxhole, and you go alongside of the, you, you're not far from the foxhole. No, not that far. Well these Germans with the 88 must have saw me, and they start throwing 88s in, and I dove back into the hole, pants down, and oh cripe. Ha, ha. Crap all over everything? I don't know. You don't remember that. I wasn't worrying about that! Ha, ha.

DEATH OF A BUDDY; KILLING GERMANS

But eh, - what, what was the, when you went, first went into combat, ah, did you, you said you saw one of your friends killed? Oh yeah, I had eh - the first, the very, right out there, the first time? Yeah, he was in the next foxhole from me. Un huh. And there he was, he's still sitting up, but he was stiff as a board! How did he get hit, with a shell or with eh? That was a shell. And, how about you? Mort, mortars coming in. And how about you eh, killing the Germans? Did, did you remember the first one you killed? Well, eh, you don't know whether you're hitting them or not. Well I mean, yeah, you couldn't see. You're not, you see what I mean, you're not that close. And then, then you don't know whether it's your bullet or not, because there's others firing too - firing too, yeah - the whole line. That clears his mind.

So, so you weren't - you never knew - but, eh, I knew, I knew of one where I had hit. Is that right? Yeah, that was after we had taken Munich - un huh - and eh, we were guarding this here Russian camp, and eh, these here Germans, what the heck, they were trying to more or less push the Russians out. They thought they were still in command, and they had a small army, and there was only two of us went down that night. This here fellow by the name of Rodriguez. I can remember him. We went down, and we saw this here group, and all we could do was just fire into the group to break them up. Well I knew we had hit a couple of them, because we'd hear them hollering. Un huh. The first thing you know, I looked around, and I'm calling him and I can't find him. Didn't answer. I said, oh geez, he must have got hit. Cause they did fire back. Un Huh. So I crawled around where he was, couldn't find him. What were you using? Well, I had the M-1. The M-1. So I come back to where we were, and there he was. Oh, boy did I curse him out! Yeah, see. You left me out there by myself! Hum. He said they were firing back! The hell with that! Huh. Ha.

SORE FEET AND COLD WEATHER

So, that's in December? That was in ah, December, and then eh - well, when did your feet get eh - well I had that - it was after the first bath, I told you - no, I had had it - I didn't know what was the matter - he thought it was fallen arches. Right away, or right, or after you're in awhile? No, after I was in there awhile, carrying this BAR in the - un huh - harness. I thought it was too heavy for me, and it was - his arches - hurting my arches - arches, that's what he told us. So, I told - was there snow on the ground the whole time? Huh? Snow on the ground the whole time? Oh sure - oh, yeah, slept in it! Huh. You slept in the snow. Well, we did have eh, eh, hum - sleeping bag? - bed role, we had a bed roll, that's all you had. And, I remember this here, I think it was around the 22nd or 23rd of ah - December? December. A eh, the truck came up. They used to bring up our rations in the morning. You would get ah, K rations, that's all we had. And eh - well, that was a good job, driving the truck - yeah, ha. Huh. And they brought up these fur coats. They were fur coats. Oh yeah? Huh. Really fur? They were short. Yeah. Oh geez, oh. That's what you were talking about. I think I had that one day.

ROTATING BACK FROM LINE FOR SHOWER AND FOOD

So we're lying in ah, our foxholes, and this here captain, no it wasn't the captain, it was eh first sergeant. He come down and he says, hey Shaw, I think it's about your time. Do you want to go back? We're gonna, we're forming up to take about seven guys back, let them get a bath, and something to eat - first in about a month. It was like a little rest area, back of the lines. I says all right. So we left around - Bill, did you stink though? I don't know. He, his hair was down to his shoulders. So eh, well I guess around five o'clock in the morning, we got on this truck. Un huh. It took us into this here, it was a little town, and that's where we got the bath. The open air there, it was an old field - yeah - unit, to take a shower.

HAVING HIS FROST BITTEN FEET CHECKED OUT

So, this one guy said, he says look, he said, there's eh medics here. Says why don't you go over and let them see what's the matter with your feet - feet? See, they knew his feet bothered him. So I took my shower. So I went over. Well, I had a hole in my heel. It was like that. They were going to take off his foot. A hole in your shoe? My heel - heel. They were going to take off - my heel, back of my - amputate his foot. Oh yeah? You didn't know that? Well I knew it was - sure he knew it, sure - but I didn't have my shoes off for thirty days! He, there are! He didn't. Oh. Un huh. So eh, geez, when I did look at them, they were all blue. Huh. Eh, I went to the medics area. Oh we have to send you back to the hospital. Did they? Well, that was in the, it was only a little field house. Oh, only a small place. What, the hospital? Well, the medics. Where the medics were after he had his - that's what they call a field hospital. It's only - un huh - only a small shack, like a shed, un huh. Well that's where all the records was.

AMBULANCE EVACUATION

I had no sooner gotten out of there in the ambulance when it was blown up. Huh. Wow. So all his, yeah - all, my records! All the records - was in there too, me being in there - un huh - and going back to the hospital. So eh, we go back in eh, this here ambulance. I think there was four of us in it. And this - all with trench feet? No, some's hit - oh all right. So eh, the driver's telling us about these other ambulances, these different spots where we were going. They didn't make it where they were shelled. Hum. And there we are like, up on a mountain, you know, and - un huh - they're being shelled. So we finally got to a, where the heck did I go?

TAKEN TO HOSPITAL IN LA HAVRE; DOCTOR BLAMES HIM FOR CONDITION

I, went to a hospital in - France - France, and then from there, they shipped me to La Havre - yeah - and it was in La Havre, this doctor come up to me, and eh, I couldn't put no - American, French? Yeah, all American. He couldn't even have bed covers on, no - I couldn't even get covers - no, no covers - on my feet. 'Cause they hurt so much? Oh, yeah, they hurt! So bad. And then eh, he said to me, yep - got to take them off - he says change your socks, socks everyday? Oh. He cursed him out. I looked at him and says what the hell are you talking about? I haven't had my shoes off in 30 days! The, he, he just walked away then. See, he knew he was wrong. Yeah, he knew. Huh. Like in other words, he was trying to blame you first. Yeah.

GOING TO HOSPITAL FROM FRONT LINE MAY HAVE SAVED HIS LIFE

What was the book you had? You had a book I read one time. Yeah, I still have that. That seems to me, that, that was all dealing with eh, I remember a lot of it about Italy. About fighting in Italy. You weren't in Italy at all? No. No. No, I missed that. Just France and Germany. Yeah, that - that was before, that was '43 and all. Yeah. Yeah. They went to Italy - un huh - and Angio. Well, did you know what? You did say that, that your company was captured. Yeah. Wiped out! While I was in hospital there - yeah - but then how did you go back to them? Well they had to reorganize - they reorganized - with the, the company that you had been assigned to, ah, when you left to go to the hospital? Yeah. Yeah. They were completely wiped out? (Battle of Reipertsviller, January 1945) All your friends? It wasn't wiped out. Most they were captured - captured - captured. Yeah. All your friends? Yeah. And put in prison camp? They never saw any of those guys again. I never saw them. No. I never saw any of them. Hum. That was fortunate for you then, huh? Yeah. Who knows, he may not have - fortunate for us - gotten out of there. Yeah, you don't even know. Yeah, well we were ah, they were surrounding us as eh, when I went back to the hospital, they were just starting to surround us then. Cause we were up on this here - this was the break out? - the break through - the break through, yeah. And that's when they had taken me back, to the - now if hadn't had that shower, he'd have never went back. No, I, you don't know what would have happened. I'm so glad. The gangrene would have gotten in it.

SHIPPED TO HOSPITAL IN ENGLAND; CHRISTMAS, 1944

Then from there, yeah, then from there, they shipped me over to England - see they couldn't - to the 83rd General. And I remember getting out of, we were on the, we went into there on a hospital train and it was Christmas Day, and we stopped at this here one town, and they had to refuel or something, and they took us all off, and geez, it was, it was just like eh a big factory. It was empty and had been shelled and all, and that's where they stored us all. Christmas, '44? We were all on - Christmas, '44? Yeah. Well, we're laying there, and I will say this lady from eh, the Red Cross, she come up, she said, did you boys have eh, anything to eat for your Christmas Dinner? So we hadn't ate since last night, so eh, she said well I'll see that you get something to eat. American again? Yeah. So she went out, and by geez, she come back and she had hot meal, oh it was an hour or so afterward. First hot meal he had in a long time. We thought she was just saying that! Yeah. Un huh. She come back and we had a turkey dinner - hum - she had some of these eh, other girls came back with her. They gave us a, a razor - for free? - yeah, a tooth brush, that was our Christmas present.

BAD FEELINGS ABOUT THE RED CROSS

The Red Cross wouldn't give them nothing there! Wasn't that nice! That was - who gave it to you? That was the Red Cross. Huh. But, after that, anything from the Red Cross, you had to pay for! Yeah, but daddy, didn't they give you a little penknife? I thought they gave you a little penknife? No, the penknives, I had taken from - you had to pay for it? - prisoners. He took them, he took them - oh, so then they gave you the gift of - yeah, that was our Christmas present, the razor and tooth brush. And he was so against the Red Cross. The Red Cross gave him nothing! And the, well, we were so thankful to get the hot meal - the hot meal, yeah, that was nice. I know you told me about the Red Cross. You had to pay for everything. They wouldn't give them nothing. But then after that, oh geez, they charged you for everything! They charged even for a donut, where the Salvation Army, he said he'd give to them anytime. Bill does too. No, anytime.

SEEING THE LOCAL PEOPLE

What was your rank? I was up for, eh, staff sergeant, and I couldn't get it because I was a day late coming out of the, the hospital, getting back to the outfit. So the captain said, ah the hell with it, Shaw, he says, you stay in with me. Un huh. Geez, I didn't do nothing. I just stayed there , ha, ha. Any jobs like he wanted - hum, that was good - oh I had it easy there. Well how, well how about the, like the French, while, while like in October , November, and December, and you were fighting there. Were you seeing all the, all the inhabitants? He went to Paris. Yeah. No, the people in the countryside and all. The people who lived there. Oh yeah, because see when you would take a town, you would see them. They would more or less come out of the houses - come out, yeah, yeah. And you know what they were doing? After you would take it. Glad to see you? They'd ordered, they would order you out of your house, and that, that - that was after we went in - ordered it! Were they glad to see you? Come in here, they'd say look, you two move out. We saw some of it. Were they generally glad to see you though? Well, it was, I know one lady there, she cursed me up and down in German. How did you know what she was saying? She was German? Yeah I found out afterwards, eh, she said her son was killed, that's why we're no good. Hum. Was she, was French or German? She was German. Oh. In France? Huh? In France? No, this was in Germany, when we were in Germany. Oh, oh.

ENGLISH HOSPITAL; THREATENED AMPUTATION

So you went to, you went eh, to England to the hospital. Yeah. Where - and I went back up the - where was that in England? Huh? Where was that in England? It was the 83rd General. I don't know where the heck that was. Cause I remembered eh, I was twenty mile away from this here town, and that's where we would go after I was in there. I don't know how long I was in there. Well, then, when you were in the hospital, you knew what was going on then with the war? Oh yeah, we got our - were you able to get the news - fliers, we got fliers then. Un huh. And eh - did they call it the Battle of the Bulge then? No, they called it, the Battle of the Bulge the Breakthrough. Yeah. Yeah, they called it the Breakthrough. They weren't calling it the Battle of the Bulge? Yeah. Battle of the Bulge - even then, when it was happening? - in Cologne - and eh, Bastogne - Bastogne, Bastogne. Un huh. See that's, we were close - was it still the 45th? Huh? That was still the 45th? I was in the 45th - he was always in the 45th. So all the way through. Oh yeah. And so, eh, how long did you stay in England in the hospital? Ah, I was in there - well they were going to take off his leg - New Year's, you must have been in there over New Year's, huh? Must have been over a month. Two, yeah. He, they said they're going to take off the leg the next day. I think I was in there two months. Un huh. And eh - they, they threatened to take the leg off? They couldn't, yeah, they couldn't eh heal that - wouldn't heal the ulcer up - that, that ulcer up, and oh geez, they - the left leg? The left. Yeah. And eh, they gave me all kinds of tests.

ONE OF FIRST RECIPIENTS OF NEW DRUG; PENICILLIN HEALS HIS FEET

Oh geez, I was doing nothing but getting tests, and eh, oh this here day the doctor come around and he looked at it, and it was still open. He said, I don't know. Said it looks like we're going to have to take it off. Oh, he wrote me that and told me. Oh yeah. He said eh - oh damn - he said but there's, tomorrow there's a shipment of something new coming in. He said and I'm going to try that. So the next day, the plane brought this here penicillin ointment in - un huh - and I was the first one to use it in England. Well that was overseas. Un huh. Thank God. Well, geez, you know that thing more or less worked miracles, between, I guess between me praying - un huh - cause I didn't want eh, to loose a leg. Yeah. Penicillin eh, was quite a drug - that was, that was an ointment then. Un huh. Then, geez - the first time used - that was the only thing that healed it up. That is, started to heal it. Un huh. Because this fellow right across from me, his leg was up, and eh that's all he did was cry. They cut it off, you mean - certainly - yeah, he had it from shrapnel. Un huh. And his was off way up to here. Hum. Shame. How about that. Her daddy would hear him all night. Oh he used to, every night he would cry and what am I going to do, when he goes home. Oh there was a wooden leg, yes, yeah. Hum.

LETTERS AND CENSORS

Were, were you able to write to her eh, when you're in the - yeah, he wrote - you know, like November and December, when you were in the front lines? But I'll tell you, it cut a lot out. They would eh - cut it out - censor. They would censor letters, coming out? Oh yeah. Cut it out! What'd you do, write the letter and have to turn it over to the sergeant? Yeah, that's it. You'd write the letter, then you, you didn't seal it. You'd hand it to them. They'd look it over, then mail it. Them, who's them? Well, that would be your eh, your headquarters. That would go to your headquarters. Un huh. See you would have to - and they screen the mail - if you were on the line, and you wrote a letter - he was telling me he was in Chester, in, in France, or England, or something, and that was all cut out.

REJOINING HIS OUTFIT, THE 45TH

So how long did you say you were in England? Eh, I guess it was - till January? - two months - February? I think it was eh, it was the first, the first of March I think I left there. That's Bill's birthday. Yeah, I was two years old. It was around the first of March. Un huh. No, that, that would have been '45, wasn't it? '45 that was. I was three years old then. Yeah. And, you left and then you went back to the front lines? Come back to the front lines. And then, by then it was in Germany then, right? Yeah. Where did you join them, eh, what town, do you know? Ah, let's see. That was right before - he hit eh, Hitler's retreat? Oh that was after - oh yeah? What the heck was the name of that town? It was a big town there, in Germany. Industrial, center, you mean? It wasn't countryside, it was eh, city - no, this here was in the - in the City? In the, it was a big city. Is that where the eh - you said Munich before, is that where it was? It was before Munich. Is, is that where the - begin with a P, I remember. Is, is that where - because that's - this museum was? No. It's in Munich.

SADDLE STORY

Well that was - so whenever you - oh I went to get her a, a saddle one night - oh I remember this - we were in Germany then, and this here one fellow - I bet he was a pet - came back and he said eh, boy, he said, there's a, a factory up there has nothing but saddles and - said I'm gone, he called - oh he named everything, what it was, the marines and all, I didn't know nothing about saddles - was this in Germany - yeah. Yeah. So eh, this other fellow I was with, he was from out eh - Texas - no, he was out around eh, Wyoming, with eh, Wyoming, I think it was he was from. And he was a, more or less like - a cowboy - cowboy. He said, oh boy he says, I says yeah geez, my kid would like one them. Oh, you know we had to crawl about two and a half mile in enemy territory - crawl - to this factory. So when we come to the factory - just the two of you? - yeah, just two of us! Yes, they shouldn't have even been out. That's right, you probably shouldn't have been out, right. No, we shouldn't, they didn't know we were out. So as I, we came to it, we saw about seven Germans in there. I said oh geez. So I told him to get down and take one door, and I went up and I took the other door, and we both broke in the same time, and then we lined them up against the wall. Then that's - they didn't shoot them - we picked them out these saddles. So he took this - Gee, I picked out, oh I had a nice one - oh. My God, how could you carry it back? Well, we brought it on our backs - backs - and eh, that's the way we crawled back.

What, what did you think you were going to do, send it home? Yeah. He had it all crated up, I'd like you to know. I got it back to this here town, where we was. He crated it, and then you know what the sergeant said? I had it all - no, Bill, you can't send it - I had it all crated up. I had eh her name on it, and then my return - yeah - you know I had to put my name on. Un huh. And, I wanted to pay this guy. I says now when, we're pushing out - a Frenchman? - I says mail this for me. No, it was an American guy - yeah - that was, they're staying there - un huh - and we were pushing on. Oh. So the, this captain come on, oh, that'll never go through! That won't go through. He said we're, come on, we're pushing out. Un huh. So I don't know whatever happened to it. No, we never did get - we never did get it. No. Yeah, we, we found some wood, we crated it up - crated it - ha, ha.

And another thing he got working - that would have been a good memento - one time he got in an office like, and they had a typewriter, and he said oh my kids would like that! So he typed a couple letters on it. Carried that on his back! Typewriter? Carried it, carried it for so long. Well, we took this here factory - and he said, then he got tired of it, and threw it away. Then we had to go through the factory. Carried on his back, wherever they went. Mostly the area you were in, in France was rural, mostly country. Yeah, yeah. That is where eh, pigs, cows, and all came right in to their kitchen. Oh yeah? Oh, geez. Because we used to go there, get eggs, anything like that - yeah - since we hadn't had anything. Un huh. But, of geez, you, you'd be in their kitchen, and there would be the pigs and the cows right there at the, ha, ha, in the kitchen door there. Ha, ah.

NEW LIEUTENANT STORY

Well, on the front line, you couldn't call a captain - captain - captain. That's right, you couldn't call any of them. You know, they didn't want to give away their rank. They'd get shot, right? You see how this here - they didn't even wear the stripes or anything on the front line, did they? No. Now this here captain, I remember the night that he came up. He come, he was a second lieuy. And we were, we were in foxholes. So he crawled around to each one, and introduced himself, and he says now look, he said, I just come over, I'm green, he says anything you can tell me. Oh, he was a swell guy! We called him Tex. He was from Texas, and we called him Tex. Well, he made captain. Well he was the captain when we got out.

SS PRISONERS SHOT

They hit, they hit a place - eh, because when we took this place, we had eh, like rooms there, in this here building, and we all took a, like a room, well, maybe there'd be three or four guys in a, in a room. Un huh. And there was two young SSers come up, and they had snuck in, and they, they killed, I think, three of our boys, right in bed! Oh. But they caught them - un huh - oh geez, did they work out on them - they had - before they shot them - they had, they had to Heil Hitler a hundred times, ha, ha. See, we had this here eh French kid with us. He could smell an SSer. I don't know, but he could, he couldn't be in, our army - un huh - but he would come around with us - un huh - just traveling with us. Oh yeah? And the Captain kept him, because he was good on - how old was he? - and he knew the terrain, and - how old was he about? Oh I'd say, he was about twenty. Oh, un huh. But, oh, geez, we had caught this here one, and eh, see we're supposed to take them prisoner. You can't shoot them. Un huh. So we left him take him back. That's what we call, take them back to headquarters. Un huh. Where they interrogate you. But he took him out - he thinks he heard the shot - around the bend, he made this one guy Heil Hitler a hundred times. After he did it a hundred times, then he shot him. Ha, ha. Hum.

NINE YEAR OLD FRENCH BOY AVENGING BROTHER'S DEATH

Oh you saw some - Bill, did you tell him about that little kid - we had a sergeant there - they had a little kid there - he was the same way. Nine years old! His brother was killed, and eh, he would always volunteer to take prisoners back - and they never got there - never! He would always say they tried to break away - break away. Because soon as he would get out of sight - he would come back in again and - you could hear his machine gun opening up. Hum. That's when you had that Tommy Gun. Un huh. Tried to get away - he'd come back, God Damn, he said, they tried to break away! Hum. So that they stopped him, oh, oh - they stopped him. Well, see his brother was killed there, and that's what, oh he would - un huh - he was rough! What was that about the little boy, mother? The little boy, nine years old, he was rotten. The sisters tried to be nice to him and all, that's, Bill said he's never seen a kid like, he could have killed the kid himself! Eh dressed in an army uniform, everything. In, in our army, U.S. Army? No, no, a German uniform.

GUARDING 200 PRISONERS; DIGGING IN AGAINST ADVANCING SS

Oh - it was, that was see, when I was coming back to meet up with our outfit, the 45th - un huh, un huh - see, eh, they had like, more or less transport me. Well, I would be stopping at different places. I stopped at this one place where they were bringing in the prisoners, and I was the only one that had infantry training. These guys was like medics or from the Aircorp. So, eh we're in this one place, I bet we had damned near 200 prisoners, there's only six of us. Oh my gosh! So eh, they come down. They told us, they had just got word the SSers had broke though, and they were on their way. I said that's nice! I says I have one clip, ammu, ammunition. I said, get me some ammunition, and get me a machine gun. They brought the machine gun down. I said well how about some eh, bandoleers for our rifles? Well they scouted around. They couldn't get no ammunition. They were getting truck drivers and all, so I had to, I had one bandoleer, for an M-1, and then I had one round in the machine gun. So I showed them. We went down, and I placed the machine gun there, and we laid there all night, and it was cold! We're waiting for the SSers to come our way. They would, said there was 50 SSers - yeah - had broke through. Huh. And that's, we're, oh geez, them guys didn't know the first thing about, I didn't know whether they could even fire a rifle! See during the break through, they were taking medics - anything, yeah - they were taking them out of the hospitals - giving them a gun. Yeah. Manpower. Un huh. Geez, that's right. But eh, they didn't come through.

GERMAN PAPER MONEY STORY

Well, what about the money? The other guys couldn't make it. Hum. Remember the money you had that was no good, they wouldn't let you keep? No, no - oh my God, wasn't that funny? He had - they told me it was a circus wagon over there. He had stuffed money - it was out in the field - all in his jacket. Oh yeah, I think you told me that. It was in Germany. Yeah. So we went over, and we broke into this here, pulled the door open. This is after the war ended, or before still? No. It was during the war. Geez, I had these German marks. Oh yeah. I had them all over! In my shirt and all - ha, ha. Un huh. Boy, we're figuring how rich we are going to be! Oh cripe, we found out that they were no good. Used? I have a couple of them notes home yet. You still do? Yup. Not many - yeah, come home. Well, what are they? Got three of them. One's from France, I think. One's a mark, but see they were - yeah, tremendous inflation there, a trillion notes - like before the war. Oh geez, they had barrels of it there. Oh and he was really stuffing it. Ha, ha. Yeah, he thought he was going to be rich. Well we thought we hit the jackpot! Ha, ah. Hun. And that was in a circus wagon? Yeah. Well, that's what they said, we don't know. It was. It was a circus wagon. Oh yeah? And that's where they had it. Hun.

TAKING MUNICH; THE GERMAN SURRENDER

So you got back into Germany, and you don't remember where you were at? - and then, that's when I met up with our outfit. You don't remember the name of that town though? Eh, no, where I first met up with them? No. And then you eventually, you, you got into Munich. What, when were you in Munich? Well we took Munich, that was ah, huh, let me see, the 9th of May was when they signed up. We got into Munich I think it was the 4th or 5th of May. Un huh, so all - see we just had, we had orders not to advance no more, just to stay there! Yeah, I know, yeah. Heck, we could - but the Russians advanced - yeah. We could have taken, we had outfits there could have took Berlin. They even lied on the outskirts - yeah - they told you to stop advancing - the Russians - went in and took it - yeah. Told you to stop advancing - oh they let the Russians do it? Yeah. Un huh. Isn't that awful? That's why we have the mess today. Huh. And eh, where were you during the month of April then? April? That's when I was on my way back to - still in Germany? - meet up with the outfit. Oh yeah. And eh, then they told you to stop advancing. When we got into Munich, yeah. When was, the surrender? About May - May the 9th. May the 9th? And you heard about it right away? Oh yeah. They had eh, given in, they had told us.

GUARDING PAINTINGS AND OTHER MUSEUM ARTIFACTS

We had apartment building. They had taken this apartment. Oh it was a big building. Ha, we all had our own apartment, maybe two or three guys would be in one - is that where all this good stuff was? No - baroness' apartment? No, then after that - oh - eh, they sent me out, oh twenty miles from there. There was a, a baron, like a castle. You should have saw that. Oh, must have been beautiful. And, oh geez, we went in there, and they had all the paintings from Munich, the museum in Munich - un huh - they had paintings, oh geez, taller than, like from this floor up to your roof here, gorgeous hand paintings. Stacked up? No, they were just that fake? Well, they had all the - that's where they were just storing them. Oh, ok.

Then they had all these here swords. It was a museum. They had all kind of swords - who's they, when you're saying they? The army - the Germans, the Germans had it, and they were in this here - baron's castle - baron castle. Now they had their own church, eh a little church it was no bigger than this room, and they had all of the fixtures and all in the, in the house, you should, the statues, cripe one night there see there was no lights, this one guy took his helmet off and put it on this statue, and I come up and I was going to shoot it! Ha, ha, ha, ha. He put his helmet right on the statue. But oh, they used to duel. We got a, a swords and jewels with these paintings - paintings. What, you, you eh, sent a lot of stuff home, or brought a lot of stuff home. Where did you get that stuff? Yeah, in this here baron's castle. He stole it from there. He didn't bring no clothes home. He even drank his way, he told you that. Un huh.

ENCOUNTER WITH BARONESS; ACQUIRING CONTREBOUND

The baroness came around this one day, and I had to go out and talk to her. I wouldn't leave her in. And she said if she can just get . . . I said well, that's my orders. No. You get, you get authority from someone else. She wanted to come in, in the house. She would have died! Oh had she went in there, she would have died! Why? What they did, what they did! Oh we were cutting up these pantons with the swords. Oh, were you really? Oh geez, everything, and we rooted cigars - went through everything. And I got a baroness' robe. I went through, I went through this one place. There was a book there. Well, I couldn't read it. It was in this, I don't know what language. But it had the date there, what the heck was it, twelve hundred and something! Oh that was - when I put it down, this guy picked it up. Oh boy, he says, that's going to be worth something! Said look at the date on there! Ah, I wasn't interested in any of that. Well why did you bring that pillowcase home, you knew that that was eighteen - oh well, that was something - eighteen something - he got $5 for that.

Oh well, that wasn't - could have gotten a lot more. Sure I could have. A sword piece and wine. Swords, I had the swords - oh yeah - you couldn't, you didn't bring those home though, did you? Un huh, yes he did. Yeah. I sold all of it. To whom? Oh ho, to some guy come around, one of them dealers you know where you call them up - un huh - oh cripe - in Philly - I sold them all. Huh, huh. And he had, he had a sword, a, a red denim, red, ermine, velvet with - robe - robe and it had rhine with ermine, ermine, top to the bottom, all down the front. I remember ah opening that stuff - we had that - in the dining room, it being on the dining room table. How, how about that horn, looking at it? Kitchen floor, wasn't it? You dumped, you dumped it, the whole duffel bag on the kitchen floor. Really? How about the ham that he, he sent home? Because that is where I had pictures, and I thought I had lost them. Oh. They were down the bottom of the duffel bag - down the bottom.

SECOND STORY JUMP STORY, GERMANY

Well, don't you want to hear about the good times we had? Yeah, I want to hear about that! Ha, ha. I'm ready for that. See you girls later. Yeah, come on! Ready? I didn't tell you about the, the night I jumped out the second story window. What second story window? Entirely. I met this girl, well - German girl - this was in Germany. Un huh - and they had eh - even the SSers had girls - well, I call them taprooms, they, so I went there and cripes, and I took two other fellows with me. Well, we're in there drinking and all, and - and she wanted to go to bed - we go up, she made my bed. It was a feather mattress. She had it there, and it was all made up. So, I, I didn't want to stay here, so I climbed out the second story - ha - window. I hung and jumped down and walked back, and I come back by myself. See. And, you wasn't allowed to, be walking on the, in the roads, or on the street then. Tell another one, hurry, tell another one. Still talk about your disabilities.

Now tell them about Anna Louise. Well, I had eh, I had about 2, 3 mile to come back. I had my hand on the pistol all the time back. Yeah. You ought a heard the fellows the next day. What the hell did you do? Come back by yourself? Yeah, I, I wasn't going to stay there. He was afraid they had SSers. See, we got, what it was - he'd have gone to sleep. No, I, no I tell you, then over there, they heard that the girls did that, and then knifed you, right in the back. Hum. See, what they'd do, the girls would get you, and you would - entice you into bed - be on the top - yeah - and there would be a knife in the back - yeah, right in the back, so that's - and he was thinking of that, yeah - when you stopped. That, that happened a lot of times over there. Any, any of your friends? Eh, no.

WHISKEY AND COGNAC FOR EVERYONE

But eh, when we first took Munich - what the heck's that? That's the thing he [Tabby cat] brought in to play with, one of his toys - we took, we took this here distillery and brewery - un huh - and we had eh, whiskey and cognac in barrels. The captain said to me, go ahead Shaw, he says, now you take charge of this now. Every two men gets a quart. Every what? Every two men. There's a quart of cognac or liquor, whatever you wanted. And you wasn't allowed to fraternize - no - you couldn't eh - no women - go out with German girls, you couldn't - see they were afraid of that, because they were knifing, sticking knives in their back. So, I, I'd get the, this here liquor, oh! I met this here girl. Eh, I'd go in her house. We'll throw a party. Ha, ha. I'd get a couple of fellows. Did they know English? I went down and get a couple more bottles of whiskey. You were supposed to be in charge, daddy. Did they know you? No. You just remember so much.

GERMAN GIRL STORY, HUSBAND IN BED; TAKING HER TO BARRACKS

And you know this here girl, she was over in the states. She was an actress. Hum. And she was over in the, she was, she could talk English. That's about the only one that couldn't, huh, eh could. But she, she was telling me about these different places she was in the United States. And this other girl that was there, oh, it was her house. So she was telling me her husband was in the service, and ah, he was discharged. Had a bad heart. Ah well, where is he? She says, upstairs in bed. While they're having a party downstairs! Ha, ha. I tell you that's pretty bad. But, I, I went upstairs, and he was there. Un huh. He pretty near had another heart attack! Ha, ha. Well that, ain't that a shame! And you know, 4 o'clock in the morning, I took her into our barracks. Oh, cripe, you ought of heard this one sergeant. He says Shaw, get her the hell out of here. He says, they'll hang you! Ha, ha. Whose that? Ha, ha. It was the sergeant telling me. But, who's going to hang you, who do you mean? The captain, I guess! No, your outfit. You couldn't bring eh, German girl in your barracks with you. Eh. We had the apartment. Oh. That's that drinking you know. You drink that cognac. You drink, then you can do anything! Ha, ha. And you don't know you do it! But I's, I was the only one though came true blue. Oh sure! Un huh. I believed it! And I believed it! Yeah! In a pig's neck, I believe it - I believed it! Oh sure, you would! But, I don't. Never have.

   
 

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